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A fully shrunk map makes it too small to get max sniper damage (for non vintorez).
The Machine Gunner perk used to have a requirement of a health perk as well.
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Yeah, knut, the more I read forums the more often I come to conclusion that I have to quit posting on forums at all, so people will make up their theories on reasons and decisions behind changes completely on their own, I should let them bash admins to make them feel more clever than creators of the game...
Sure, YOU know it all, and we dont know shit, we only milk your money forcing you to reskill.
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Well i can honestly agree to some things here.
I myself used a machine gun since lvl like 4, up to about lvl 33, Once they got nerfed the first time, i reskilled.
Lil_God is the same way, he used Machine Guns almost the WHOLE time, and now with this nerf, he reskilled to Sniper instead. I see it as this ammo thing is not balance, but has created a more "BUILD" problem.
In Order to have a successful Machine Gunner you would either
A.) ONLY take machine gun and ammo, and armor, and maybe a secondary weapon. So that negates the use of a Machine Gun/Doc, or secondary being another GUN cuz of lack of space, so your secondary will be forced at MELEE, you can barely carry meds.
B.) Wait until higher lvl until u can get the Mule perks, then maybe u MIGHT can have a decent machine gunner who can carry a few shots worth of ammo.
All in All i think the machine gun was good the way it was before the first nerf (the range nerf), But what can we do, only make complaints and PRAY the mods will listen but 90% of the time they dont.
Have a good ALL
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A fully shrunk map makes it too small to get max sniper damage (for non vintorez).
The Machine Gunner perk used to have a requirement of a health perk as well.
Hmm true, with the maximum range the damage of non-vint-sniper is around 15% bigger but thats just one point. What is with the other the chance for scratches is 20% bigger too. And difference of minimum and maximum damage grow too. The mean value is always the same, maybe at closer range better as at meximum range. The End of all a mg without ammo cant be better as a sniper with no maximum possible damage but some ammo.
Last match of me 2 MG-units go out of ammo. Not me but mone of my team and one of side of enemy.
Other question why you drop the wanted bullets of neo and jackhammer? This weapons cost more ap as lower shootguns and make amazing damage at short range. High difference between shootgun and nearly same damage like mg at long range!
And who create ideas about problems of balance like this? I dont read critics about the unbalance of this weapons at english or russian forum. Just read postings about weak rockets but there are no changes.
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madda is right!
as many people know, i used to have a acc good in defence and I always wanted to have a good power in atack...In that time came the vulcan, and i got crazy to use it to improve my atack...
Yes! I used that vulcan... and I got very happy with the power of my atack!...But with these 2 last change in machinegun (max range and ammo per shot) finished my happyness.... The way ll be to reskill and find a new weapon to make me stronger.☹
at last, i dont know if i can now but I ll be the next player that stop useing machinegun.
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and here is the million dolar question why wont u reset ?
its not like u lose money in fact its better cuase if u keep doing updates
like this and not reset them people leave the game i have friends who left
becuase of updates like this :S
this update totaly ruined my m60/doctor i have to carry like 4 or 5 stacks of ammo and i can barely carry 4 or 5 meds :S when before i use to carry 9
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[QUOTE="chicken from somewhere above"] A fully shrunk map makes it too small to get max sniper damage (for non vintorez).[/QUOTE]
Dude.. do you even know what a sniper is like??? Max damage? that's a bad joke. Half the time i walk the sniper closer just to decrease the scratch chances because snipers scratch like crazy. And their long range damage advantage is completely lost by the disadvantage created by accuracy. What you said up there is so far from the truth for a sniper user it can't be taken seriously. All your changes to machine guns create a big and clear sniper / SIG advantage in all aspects as for long range category. Launchers are purely useless, machine guns now VERY complicated to use... .
So what now? you will nerf rifles and snipers to adjust that in 2 months? You keep weakening weapons and fix their ineffectiveness by weakening OTHER weapons down to their level!! So where is that going to end? Pistol FTW???
And you keep backing the concept up by arguments that in game play are simply not True.
Machine guns being nerfed little by little. You compare them to 40mm in your support for that change when the weapons have nothing in common, and you tell about advantages of machine guns that simply DO NOT EXIST. Fact is: machine guns are now simply very complicated to build a unit for... It has very few options of build and are very complicated to adequately equip and use with the possible builds.
If this update is for balance than it's a fail. Balancing one problem by creating a parallel one (launchers - machine guns) is wrong, and it will only lead to more problems.
If this update is to increase cash flow from ammo it's a bigger fail.. See what Maddawg said - more bullets - less heals.. heals cost more and how many people who use cash play without heals?
So please, one sensible argument for what it is good for???? Anyone?
From the changes over time it looks like the developers are trying to make long range weapons weaker and close range weapons stronger to orient the game in close combat bashout over mixed tactic direction. If that is the case, please just say it like that so we can all respec to shotguns and then you keep messing up all the long range as you wish.
Edited 6 minutes later by Shtaks.
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True arguments. And what i forget to say. What have gamebalance to do with this update? The mg-shoot in itself is the same like before. Its just a change to break the built of the mg-unit. Why? Let me explain. With MG you just can shoot within 1-2 used ap. After this you cant use mg. So you want 2nd or 3th skilled weapon. 2nd skill is shortrange like shootgun, melee or maybe uzi because a possible raise of ap/mp so you have better possibilities to hide after shootig mg. All weapons withour scoping-options so mabye you use a binocluar at mg-unit too. 3th skill is maybe nades, mines or medi (doc) now you have big problems with the space of his unit. Its not a nerf of the weapon, its just a nerv of the unit who use mg.
You cant compare just mg with rockets. Yes both can hit more units but with rocket-skill you can use 40mm-milkor at short range and just 5ap too. You can attack walls, doors or windows so its easier to shoot and hide again.
And like streetsoldier said: If you give every player the option to use a complete resett of his mg-unit nobody would say you only do this to milk our money forcing to reskill myself. And im sure if you do this same things would happen like the rocket nerv. Most player reskill to find a better complete built for this unit wich means most use another weapon. Maybe in a month you think another weapon is "overpowered" just because many player use it. But mabye they just use it because the good balanced combinations of perks/skills for a unit with good options for longrange and shortrange. With some of your last updates you ruin this options to give units good combinations for long and short range.
Maybe another way is to raise the perks of strong back, packer and mule. For example if you give more space and more possible weight for rockets or 40mm. Or bonusperk for granadiers wich raise invantoryspace and weight too.
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I totaly agree with Knutistgut
All these changes are welcome but they ruin builds of units...
if you change a gun so dramaticly and dont give a free reset think about
what a player using this gun feels like.
There is a very good reason why this game active players count did not raise
so much in the past 12 months...
You get 10 out of 10 in a lot of categories in my opinion.
But you get about 1-2 out of 10 in the most important catergory which is
The game accessibility.
Most players cant afford to use 20$ reset every month!
I have played online games and all together I did not spend half the cash
I spend on gunrox...
is 170$ this month seems logical ? what will be next month ?
I know you think about paying your developers , programers , administraitors
and more but you miss this way the optimal outcome for all of us!!!
Which is much , much more active (cash using) players , and lower prices.
I dont think I could keep up with those skill resets all the time along with the
0.5-1 $ I have to pay after losing a match in order to buy the equipment
again.
and by the way , playing without cash in high levels is IMPOSSIBLE!!
I love this game... but I dont think I can afford it on the long run.
most computer games cost about 40-50$ and have free online options.
this game costs me 50$ a week... or if I start saving more than lets say 30$
a week.
Make the game affordable ... gunrox old cash users can keep the game
running for a limited time.
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From what i can see Is that everytime a player finds a build they like, then others start using that build because it is good, somehow it gets nerfed.
Now Sniper/Critical is the most dominate build around, You do not see almost 1 lvl 30+ who does not have 1 sniper/crit unit. So what will come next, Snipers will get nerfed again. Soon everyone will be using Melee or Pistols or some stupid gun as primary now because all other guns suck bad.
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you see - lots of people upset because of "balance" that "ruins" their builds
i play 3 teams and i cashed a little for each of them, but complete reskill is so expensive i will never buy them, i think thats the same for a lot of other players, so you really lose players
i still have great fun playing, gunrox is exactly the game i was lookin for (i played vandal hearts on ps1 lots of times 😁 )
but i know one day my build will really suck and then i will be frustrated and quit gunrox and play again vandal hearts 😝
so why dont you add a little feature: at lvl10, 20 and 30 you get a free reskill for one member of your team, so when getting to lvl30 every player had the chance to rebuild each unit, if he still complains ... well ... call him noob 😁
lots of people will continue playing and trying harder to level up since they can easy undo there faults in their builds.
i think its a dead end for lots of players if reskill is only possible with money.
and if people are again crying and flaming because of balance issues you can tell them: hey cmon get to lvl10, 20 or 30 and you can change your build ...
cmon think about it, the more players stay at gunrox, the bigger is the possibility that they will buy enkord to further enhance their team 😉
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so why dont you add a little feature: at lvl10, 20 and 30 you get a free reskill for one member of your team, so when getting to lvl30 every player had the chance to rebuild each unit, if he still complains ... well ... call him noob 😁
)
Quite good an idea I think, adds a reward for leveling up and progressing, while keeping the "buy reskill" option for all but the most patient of players.
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Not good enough. Too many changes cause too many people want to reset after them. Of the top of my head i had friends that reset grenades, rifles, launchers, machine guns.. all on account of changes in the last 3-4 months. reseting 1 unit every 10 levels is simply not good enough. And what about the high levels? Level 40s who now need 35 bullet for a shot??? they need to hurry up and get lvl 50 just to reset that?
I think that after ANY change that affect a weapon type, all skills/perks related to that weapon type need to be reset fully. However it's been dug through too and Berserker isn't doing it except when there are drastic changes and mass complaints.
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However it's been dug through too and Berserker isn't doing it except when there are drastic changes and mass complaints.
Forget about mass complaints, drastic changes only.
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And the Terminator perk which is stronger than the Right Hand of Doom perk.
Sorry beter then right hand? right hand is way more powerfull.
Or you mean it only take 10 perks instead of 20 to get it, but still it
is underpowered comparing to right hand of doom. But + extra perk on MG I think its nice.
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Sorry beter then right hand? right hand is way more powerfull.
Or you mean it only take 10 perks instead of 20 to get it, but still it
is underpowered comparing to right hand of doom. But + extra perk on MG I think its nice.
Right Hand of Doom gives 2% Crit Chance and 20% Crit Power.
Terminator gives 5% Crit Chance for Machine Gun.
Initially I thought Crit Power was 10% per perk thus making the Right Hand of Doom a "4 perk" ability. And using the same thought process the Terminator gives a "5 perk" ability on heavy gun only so I would call this a (soft 5).
After further review, I do see that each perk only gives 5% Crit Power therefore making this ability a "6 perk". Anyways, in any event, they are very similar in effect and the difference is slight.
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chicken
even if you wanna make the ammo similar to 40mm usage, when you start using vulcan, it doesn't add up.
vulcan take 35 ammo each shot.
that means, if someone take 200 ammo with him, it's enough for how many shots? 6 shots...
it's like taking a 6 attrition vulcan with you...
dont forget that a unit which wants to use vulcan, must take the shotgun/rapid/melee perks for AP, as 12 AP is too low for a 10 AP shot. together with health perks, it doesn't leave you enough perks for a packer perk, which you must take, to take with you 400 ammo(12 shots minimum is a must for a machine gun and even then i'd be really scared to go to a 3 hour mega with only 12 shots)
anyways, this nerf makes machine guns too much of a liability. it has just too many disadvantages, and it's just not as versatile as an assuault rifle or sniper, which you take and forget about all your problems. when you use a weapon like aug or barret, you dont need to worry 1 bit about ammo. now, it's a MAJOR concern.
btw, i'm not even using machine guns so this nerf is actually good for me. i'm as objective as anyone can be.
berserker, i'd have to say that your claim that machine guns rule and everyone uses them, isn't really an argument to back up this nerf, as 1. it's not used more than any other weapon anyway, 2. most important, people switched to them after red zone entered in game and before they were nerfed so much. i agree about all the nerfs before this one, but this is too much.
and you can see people either reskill off shotguns now, or they really want to reskill.
lil god, as anyone will agree has as much skill as a player as someone with an updated build, reskilled as fast as he could away from it. and i'm sure it's the first to come.
piteco would do it in a sec if he could now, and mercenary, who is an avid reskiller, i predict will go away from machine guns very soon.
i see the logic in more ammo usage, but more than 25 ammo per shot is too much.
if 25 fixed shot will be for all machine guns, it will make much more sense and will be just like 40mm, just like you said chicken.
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i use machine mellee nades in one unit sadly i can only bring 4 ammo max now, unfurtunately i dont have money to reskill again and again, i may stick to this noob build,low hp 6 times to shoot,so funny nxt lvl i need another strongback perk just for additional ammo.
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chicken
even if you wanna make the ammo similar to 40mm usage, when you start using vulcan, it doesn't add up.
I want to go on record saying that I have absolutely no power in the decision making process on what changes are made in the game. Please don't assume that I suggested this nerf. On the contrary, I have yet to share my actual thoughts on the machine gun. As a moderator I try to be objective. I might log on Dew and share my real feelings on this update...
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20 per shot? or random between 10-30 per shot
Why not just make the Machine Gun's use 20 per shot?
All the other weapons use a set amount of ammo per shot and 20 per shot is more balanced and a bit more decent, than raising the price of a shot the higher the weapon used..
50 ammo = 2 shots, 20 per shot
100 ammo = 5 shots, 20 per shot
150 ammo = 7 shots, 20 per shot
200 ammo = 10 shots, 20 per shot
250 amm = 12 shots, 20 per shot
300 ammo = 15 shots, 20 per shot
-Much Better than..
50 ammo = 2 shots, 25 per shot
100 ammo = 4 shots, 25 per shot
150 ammo = 6 shots, 25 per shot
200 ammo = 8 shots, 25 per shot
250 ammo = 10 shots, 25 per shot
300 ammo = 12 shots, 25 per shot
-OR even a random amount between 20-30 or even 10-30 like a gamble.. RANDOM since you don't ever know how many bullets your firing per shot in real life, if you want the machine gun to be used in that way..
-Alternatively if there were ammo Crates to carry extra ammo into battle, maybe 25 per shot wouldn't be so bad.. maybe..
*Ammo Crate* ( New item ) = carry's 300 ammo, 50% extra = 2+ slots,
4x4 Crate in inventory that only carries 1 type of ammo at a time.
-Ammo types can carry = Shotgun, tmp, asku, rocket, grenades, colt ammo's and maybe.. sniper ammo
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