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Dont get me busted now
do you have any other account highier than this?
i like ur thoughts u may be intellegent....
but knowing LATE he has the wisdom....
Xp talk with me at your site.
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BTW i watched your you tube matches and awesome way to explode mines man you pounded that guy on the lost beach 😁
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I started reading this post feeling like people see me as a camper, even though I usually open more then half the boxes on a map (meaning i'm not just hiding in a house). I'm often made to feel "guilty" for camping after i have placed mines down.
I think i have to agree with RedGuardian on this topic, to eliminate camping (and i define camping as "letting your enemy come to you rather then vise-versa) would be eliminating a frustrating but VIABLE tactic in the game.
The best strat against NOTO is a full rush. Maddawg420 did an excellent job in his tourny fight against me as by turn 2 he was already shooting my butt and i had very little chance to get mines down. However, once i did, and he tripped a significant amount of them, he very quickly resorted to "camping" himself. And i TOTALLY understand why!! Why should he walk around the map getting blown up, when he can sit and wait, regen, and let me expose myself.
So therefore, even "Assulters" find camping to be useful at times. I'm not saying its not frustrating. If berserker had made "timers" on mines, (meaning if you set it, it will go off after a few turns if its not tripped earlier) then maybe "Camping" would be less useful. For now, it REALLY depends on your spec. With my current spec, if i Aassault, i usually won't win.
Late, Berserker is considering nerfing mines agian so they cannot be used offensivly. (walk up, plant, plant, run and granade a mine) I asked why because that is a serious blow to my build as i don't have any other short range option. He said Mines were ment to be a "defensive" weapon. Now what do you think a "defensive" weapon is? They were ment to set up a parimiter (or defense) and then wait....thus "camping".
It would be silly to set up a defense and then stand outside it. (usually) So why force a build that is based on defense, into having to keep moving to gain the same advantage as their opponent?
Well, these are just my thoughts, and mines aren't the only "defensive" weapon. Most snipers, aren't going to post out in the open trying to expose by running in but rather to shoot from a distance and take cover again. Doctors, are not ment to run in as point men, but usually are placed in the back and not moving a whole lot - otherwise they can't do their job of healing other units. Would you say they are "camping"?
There's a post about Mem getting a name change, and if you want a true name change, i think it should be "campers alley". ☺ Because unless your whole team has assault builds...those that push too fast...die. Thus, camping a BUSH or STATUE is critical to the success of your team.
Well, great discussion everyone...its all good stuff, we know this game needs to evolve with its players, and I personally think its good to talk about this kind of thing. Thanks for the good post Late, and the good replies RedG.
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Noto, I get it that each weapon has its use, but mines is hardly a good example in this one, or your game with madd. Mines make the game about "who camps more" anyway.
I dont want to remove the option of using ground to your advantage, thats fine. I just feel there should be a mechanic countering it, or softening it, to encourage moving around, thats all.
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The problem with mines is not because of camping. Mines are naturally made for campping and even without them if someone wants to can he will do that anyway. The main problem with mines is their offensive use, like Nina-CN uses - she walks in, plants two mines, walks away and throws grenade - boom -1 unit. This way with mines you don't need melee weapons - mines are so much superior. I want to increase cost to plant of higher mines so even with two perks that reduce ap cost it will still be 3 ap to plant. It won't prevent you from placing mines in advance but won't allow you to play offensively with them.
Honestly with new sensors and stun traps, etc., mines are extremely helpful tool. It's only a matter of time when everyone will find it's attractiveness.
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Honestly with new sensors and stun traps, etc., mines are extremely helpful tool. It's only a matter of time when everyone will find it's attractiveness.
Perhaps it's because they are very expensive to buy ( you need lot's of em for just one game ) and almost impossible to find in good numbers ...
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Guys, if your going to DEBATE this topic, make another thread "DABATING OVEr CAMPING"
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I just want to thank Noto for achknowledging our fight ☺ heheheh, although you were a tough opponent, and if i did not know your build, then i wouldnt of won. Also, RedGaurdian, you make all the assumptions and everything, but you still have yet to see the side effects of camping on higher levels. Like i said once u get high lvl, play me one time, and see if your **camping** tactics is worth it.
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I just want to thank Noto for achknowledging our fight ☺ heheheh, although you were a tough opponent, and if i did not know your build, then i wouldnt of won. Also, RedGaurdian, you make all the assumptions and everything, but you still have yet to see the side effects of camping on higher levels. Like i said once u get high lvl, play me one time, and see if your **camping** tactics is worth it.
There is an old saying in our country Don't say too much least you get to face your wrong 🙄 I have nothing more to add...PS You don't know my tactics Believe me am a totally different breed of Camping, Assumption? If your saying camping is useless for me then I'm sorry but what annoys you the most is my best way to attack you. I haven't made any assumptions, its my Exp now, BTW I've played high levels mind you am just redoing on a new account >> My old account just wasn't worth it so i gave it away ☺. Now you'd say what was it? well thats something i can't tell for the greater good 😳
BTW You camped your self? Your making this a personal matter which i discourage cause honestly i am not going to fight you.
Edited 4 minutes later by *DELETED*.
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Ok RedGuardian, dont get your facts twisted, for one I am not a camper, and i strongly disagree with doing so. But the ONLY way to finish the game i had against Noto was to camp, if it was early in the game where i had all my healings and nades then yes i WOULDNT of camped but no it was towards the end, so you please dont ASSUME anything. And you said that you have fought high lvls, well then FIGHT ME. I want to see my wrong please. And i would hold ur tounge about giving an account away, as you probably didnt read the rules and all. And i dont care what high lvl account you had, apparently it wasnt worth anything because you gave it away. So again, i will show you that camping is useless, but i already know that you wont fight me, so Good Luck with finding opponents.
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The problem with mines is not because of camping. Mines are naturally made for campping and even without them if someone wants to can he will do that anyway. The main problem with mines is their offensive use, like Nina-CN uses - she walks in, plants two mines, walks away and throws grenade - boom -1 unit. This way with mines you don't need melee weapons - mines are so much superior. I want to increase cost to plant of higher mines so even with two perks that reduce ap cost it will still be 3 ap to plant. It won't prevent you from placing mines in advance but won't allow you to play offensively with them.
Honestly with new sensors and stun traps, etc., mines are extremely helpful tool. It's only a matter of time when everyone will find it's attractiveness.
Sadly a change like this shuts down my spec, I AM using it as my only close range but with no perk points and therefore its already costing me 3 AP to plant. So if I move in to plant - then i'm there to stay and usually hitting myself with some of the mine dmg.
The other thing i would say is that Nina's spec needs her to get close in order to walk up and plant 2 mines and get out of the way, how is that differnt from being close enough for 2 neosteads (+100 dmg?) or for that matter if she had a second granadier...that would also allow for 2 granade throws from one unit and one from the other. ANY of these will usually mean -1 unit for the other team as they are anywhere from 100-150 dmg each.
The ONLY way mines will do 100+ are if they are next to the unit...so why not just leave things - its not like its impossible to beat and for those who aren't perked in mines (such as myself), it makes using mines pretty much usless. If you watch the video of Madd and my game, you will see that I barely had time to get a mine or two down before he was on top of me...at 5 ap, I might as well respec. ☹
Oh well, you will do what you do ☺ And we will do our best with what remains...☺
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how is that differnt from being close enough for 2 neosteads (+100 dmg?)
You can't plant neosteads.
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Neo uses 5 ap per shot, and one shot usually does 70ish damage. Yesterday I tasted 2 mines close range, and they ALWAYS do 120ish damage. With 1 ap..
But like I said talking about just mines is kind of offtopic here. What I made this topic for, is to hear suggestions for possible viable mechanics that would encourage moving around. Random extra APs if you move for long ? Or temporal extra vision range ? Aliens-like movement detector in a crate that only works for that game?
Edited 2 minutes later by Late.
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The problem with mines is not because of camping. Mines are naturally made for campping and even without them if someone wants to can he will do that anyway. The main problem with mines is their offensive use, like Nina-CN uses - she walks in, plants two mines, walks away and throws grenade - boom -1 unit. This way with mines you don't need melee weapons - mines are so much superior. I want to increase cost to plant of higher mines so even with two perks that reduce ap cost it will still be 3 ap to plant. It won't prevent you from placing mines in advance but won't allow you to play offensively with them.
Honestly with new sensors and stun traps, etc., mines are extremely helpful tool. It's only a matter of time when everyone will find it's attractiveness.
well, i totaly agree with you, it cant be that anyone can plan 2-3 mines, go away throw a nade and boom one unit is dead no matter how many hp he got.
so this 3 ap is great!!
and redgurdian... god dam i hope you play as well as you can talk. i would like to see what is your camping tactic going. i want to learn new things ☺
and one last thing for Noto - i am D-man!!!
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Ok RedGuardian, dont get your facts twisted, for one I am not a camper, and i strongly disagree with doing so. But the ONLY way to finish the game i had against Noto was to camp, if it was early in the game where i had all my healings and nades then yes i WOULDNT of camped but no it was towards the end, so you please dont ASSUME anything. And you said that you have fought high lvls, well then FIGHT ME. I want to see my wrong please. And i would hold ur tounge about giving an account away, as you probably didnt read the rules and all. And i dont care what high lvl account you had, apparently it wasnt worth anything because you gave it away. So again, i will show you that camping is useless, but i already know that you wont fight me, so Good Luck with finding opponents.
😝 you just proved you would camp as a last resort even if you are GAH come out and die!, lets suppose if you didn't camp in noto's game? you would've lost!. I have nothing more to say about all the rest is nothing but a dawg's bark to me.
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PS Guys I respect you all! well...maybe Maddawg420 a little now 😝😳, You guys are working class for the game who one day when level up will let the out come of my most awaited thing in the game...The POWER weapons, As for everyone, To be honest i can't get my old account back....and it isn't worth it cause it was mess of perks and skills 🙄 I am just at level 5 right now, and have very little and strange time these days, sometimes i am fighting at nights sometimes at days...I'm trying my level best to get along with you people to prove my points and I love you guys (not in literal sense)..I'm just waiting for My paypal to get started with but there are so much complication!...once its open, I'm going to be running levels in hours.
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😝 you just proved you would camp as a last resort even if you are GAH come out and die!, lets suppose if you didn't camp in noto's game? you would've lost!. I have nothing more to say about all the rest is nothing but a dawg's bark to me.
Like i said DONT make assumptions, and no i have no respect for you or any other camper. And no if i DIDNT camp that camp i probably could of still won, i do have LOTS of regen, so triggering 1-2 mines at a time and regen'ing i probably would of still won. So no i am HIGHLY against campers.
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Like i said DONT make assumptions, and no i have no respect for you or any other camper. And no if i DIDNT camp that camp i probably could of still won, i do have LOTS of regen, so triggering 1-2 mines at a time and regen'ing i probably would of still won. So no i am HIGHLY against campers.
don't embarrass your self, your making no point at all anymore. You camped you did what you hate. 😎 end of your blah blah blah
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If we are to look at the offensive power of the mines, we must compare them to the shotgun and the melee options. I would say the effectiveness is COMPARABLE at best (not better) for the mines. One MAJOR downside for mines is that we need a sidekick to toss an explosive in the mix to get the trigger going. When we go in and plant it becomes blatantly obvious and useless unless we can trigger them ourselves that turn. Therefore this combo cannot work unless we have a MINIMUM of 2 units, this must be viewed as a huge downside.
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You can't plant neosteads.
Neo's doing 70dmg...nah they are higher...and correct Berserker - you can't plant a neo, however, you are missing my point. 3 Frag granades easily total the dmg of 1 frag grandede and 2 mines...AND you don't have to leave a unit exposed when you are done. My POINT is that there ARE other specs out there that do just as much dmg in one round...so why do you think mines are so off balance.
Lil, we "shouldn't" be able to plant for 1 ap? Seriously, until you have played a miner spec, and realize how much of a chance you are taking by trying to get close enough and then committing to it by running in full...then you shouldn't speak about it. Lil, why not try a miner and see if its as "overpowered" as you think. Better yet, try a secondary skill miner with no perks, and tell me if you think its easy or unfair...then consider making planting 5 ap...what a joke.
ONE more point...Nina can't kill my unit even with a plant, plant, granade. HP rules. If she moves in, and can't kill...she is dead that next turn. Those of you specced in "luck", in double perk guns, OF COURSE you will die fast! So lets nerf everything because of people's lack of HP! ☺
I get a kick out of the double negetives coming from people's posts...I love ya Madd and Lil but you guys are blowing smoke! ☺ Madd hates campers but camps when its critical to winning - just accept that and move on - its not like its such a taboo thing to do. Both of you get on RedG for not knowing what he's talking about but then go and say mines are totally OP and "shouldn't be able to do this and that" without ever having played one.
Anyway, I'm sure mines, will be nerfed agian. And people will respec...☹ Honestly, look at how many miners the game has...very few...even a few of the famous miners have now respecced. Berserker, the new mines are fun but tough to use right now...dmg is still king. I mean, WHY would ANYONE use a 1-40 poison mine? ☺ And the sensors are only useful on large maps, so place a senson in Mem...lol and then what? Its not like you can get close enough to the other side of the road to put one behind a bush. So as I said, they are fun...thats about it. I will conceed that the stun mines can be game winners...that's if you have the strat to pull it off. Pink_Ranger totally annhilated Mayhem and it all started with a stun mine. But still they can be blown up, wasted (never blown or at the wrong time), and often seen by other miners. All in all, i think the spec is balanced.
Ok, back to topic. Sorry Late. Camping sucks, but like Madd said, campers beware!, as there are those out there who can tear that play style to pieces. I don't see there being an issue.
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