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Redistribution of skill-points and perks.
Hey,
Introduction: I know it is possible to pay money to be able to redistribute some skill-points, but I think this is a feature that should be accessible to all players. but not at all times. Having a free-game with the possibility to use micro-transaction is a good idea, but the creators should not expect more than 2-15% paying players. This means that the game design must first and foremost make the game great for ALL players, and then give the paying players some kind of extra benefits (which is not ruining the gameplay).
Background: When you start the game you have basically no idea how the different weapons work, what kinds of weapons is in the game, which perks you will unlock later on, how the different maps are designed etc. This makes it extremely difficult to make good choices when distributing your skill-points in the beginning of the game, at least for the first 2-3 levels. And NO, a solution to this problem is not to advice players to wait using their skill-points, a level 4 player having used no skill points yet will have a VERY hard time competing with level 4 players who have used all their points.
Idea: My idea is that when you reach a certain level you will be given the chance to redistribute some or all of your skill-points and perks. My initial idea is that when a player reaches level 6, he will be able to redistribute these points. At this point he should have a lot of knowledge about the different weapons and playing styles. I think that would make the game experience a lot better for many people. Then we could correct the errors made early game, istead of regretting thos stupid newb mistakes for the rest of the game's lifetime.
Another suggestions is that if you could see all the perks from the beginning it would give a greater overview of the possibilities you have. This should not change the unlock-steps etc. It should just give the player an overview of what to come, and indicate which e.g. two perks are required to get perk X (if there is such hierarchies).
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idea is that when a player reaches level 6, he will be able to redistribute these points
NEGATIVE!
wanna try new tactic with new weapons, perks, skills, combination, create new character....easy☺ ...again, nothing can come so easy...imgaine players on high lvl withc can redistribute they perks after every 6 lvl.... lol...after couple weeks...all playrs will get the same very effective unbeatable combination...THIS can ruin this game !
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The idea is good , but it need some tweaking though ..
I think it's better , if it would be like this:
You get 1 perk reset and 5 skill point reset ( for each unit ) after 5 levels ,
So at level 6,11,16,21,26,31,36 etc
You can reset 1 level of perks and skill if you want to , this way you can graduately change some perks that you've choosen majorly wrong , but it doesn't give you all perk reset so everyone get's overpowered. 😁
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The idea is good , but it need some tweaking though ..
I think it's better , if it would be like this:
You get 1 perk reset and 5 skill point reset ( for each unit ) after 5 levels ,
So at level 6,11,16,21,26,31,36 etc
You can reset 1 level of perks and skill if you want to , this way you can graduately change some perks that you've choosen majorly wrong , but it doesn't give you all perk reset so everyone get's overpowered. 😁
sounds like a good idea . I`ve got a few weapons skills which are of no use to me. I have used cash shop but the price to reskill points would use most of my cash and not leave much for weapons and armour. I would also buy some apperance changes but they only last 90 days.
The perks list can be downloaded from the forums, but a fully illustrated skill tree for perks should be put into the guide so players can plan ahead.
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onetower: To clarify my initial post, which you seemed to misunderstand a bit (maybe because of my poor language skills, this is not my main language). "By accessible to all players" I refer to both paying and NON-paying players. Saying that things you can buy in the cash shop is available to all players, is almost the same as saying that all camps are available to all players, also level 1 players... Because they can just play a lot of matches until they reach level xx to gain access to all the camps. The things in the cash shop (including the possibility to redristribute skill points) are available to the minority of the people playing Gunrox namely those who would like to use the cash shop.
I didn't say that anything was ruining gameplay it was just a general description of how microtransaction games should be designed.
And I am not complaining about the fact that the people who use the cash shop can get weapons/items I think it is completely fair and I have no problem at all killing them and stealing their items ☺
But what I am saying is that it would be really nice to have the feature i described, a possibility to redristibute the skill points after you reach level x.
wanna try new tactic with new weapons, perks, skills, combination, create new character....easy ...again, nothing can come so easy...imgaine players on high lvl withc can redistribute they perks after every 6 lvl.... lol...after couple weeks...all playrs will get the same very effective unbeatable combination...THIS can ruin this game !
My proposal was not indicating that you should be able to perform the redistribution each time you raised e.g. 5 level, I was proposing that you ONCE during the whole game could correct your initial mistakes, e.g. when you reached level 6. Because almost any player starting the game will not have enough knowledge of the different weapons/tactics to make really informed choices when distributing the skill points, when for example level 2 is reached.
Furthermore, stating that players should just create a new character can never be a good solution to a possible game design problem. If you have bought a new car and want to shift the car stereo to a better one you wouldn't either be interested in the solution "you can just buy another car".
You are way off when you mention the "very effective unbeatable combination" as a reason why my VERY reasonable game design change is not a good idea. Any game with skill/perk choices as this one should be designed so there is no single best choice. If you have a game and it turns out that everyone uses the same single weapon and select the precisely same skills you have made a serious game design error, avoiding this is called balancing. So if we have a balanced game (as I think Gunrox is), the ability to redistribute skills points (especially as my proposal was that you could do it only once, when still being a low level player) can never pose the problem you describe.
Your answer indicates that it would be a good idea to have a game where players make random choices in the beginning, and these choices make sure that only the ones guessing right (or creating a new account after 2 months) would get the IMBA combination which would make them superior to everyone else...
Edited 2 minutes later by *DELETED*.
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i dont see any point on implementing this...
wanna perks/skills reset, buy them at cash shop... (easy way)
if u cant charge your account, be smart, prepare good character leveling tree...and start game again....and play wisely....
OVER!
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i dont see any point on implementing this...
wanna perks/skills reset, buy them at cash shop... (easy way)
if u cant charge your account, be smart, prepare good character leveling tree...and start game again....and play wisely....
OVER!
This is correct, also if you get free resets it encourages cookie cutter builds because as soon as someone plans out a good one everyone can level up and swap it to a clone of his. If you want to to reset support the game and buy it from the cash shop.
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i dont see any point on implementing this...
wanna perks/skills reset, buy them at cash shop... (easy way)
if u cant charge your account, be smart, prepare good character leveling tree...and start game again....and play wisely....
OVER!
All us beta testers had a few resets to try to get our units right. Ok things have been tweaked since then but we still got to undo some mistakes.
Maybe one 10 skill point reset at level 10 just to tweak your units and one at lev 30, 40, 50, etc.
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Name at least one online game that allows such resets for free.
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Name at least one online game that allows such resets for free.
point taken , but a good skill tree in the guide would help instead.
as it was available to download if u knew where to look.
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Name at least one online game that allows such resets for free.
http://versus.thewitcher.com/
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http://versus.thewitcher.com/
And? Desribe us when/how those resets are made as we don't have time to play through and figure out by ourselves.
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PoxNora is a turn based online game that provides resets EVERY TIME a spec or ability has been changed - it seemed only fair.
I still think that reset should be offered every time a skill is changed or added - in the cases when they improve or are nerfed.
Earlier you changed the pistols and I cried reset! You then replied that you simply made changes that improved pistol so nobody would unspec it. But in fact, you may have forgotten that people now might WANT to move into the pistol tree.
It seems only fair to offer a limited time respec every time you change the stats or weapons and such. I am talking full respec too, cause it changes everything!
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And? Desribe us when/how those resets are made as we don't have time to play through and figure out by ourselves.
everytime you want. thousands of players (now about 20k) play this game, and this didnt ruin gameplay ;p you wanted example so i gived it to you. this is your business what you do with that (probably nothin;p)
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I agree that everythime something is changed with the perks there should be a reset of some sort , i doesn't have to be a complete reset, you could also give people a certain number ( depending on their level ) of reset points.
But the thing is that when perks skill or weapons are being tweaked ( for example the sniper rifle nerf ) people want to change perks as the things they have choosen for suddenly get worse ( or better , it depends on the change )
For example, not long ago you've added weigth to the grenade launcher, someone who has this perks and uses grenade launcher a lott probably wants to have more weigth in their inventory because he can't carry everything arround anymore, thus making him cut back in weapons or armor or perhaps stop using grenade launcher which makes this skill he choose completely useless. ( untill he levels up and can choose an extra perk again )
So even a small change as adding weigth to grenade launcher or ammo can disbalance the complete game.
And i'm not blaming you , but as a mod you just change is , and if you want to change your perks you can use the cash shop, this option is ( not yet ) available to use for all memebers , yes we had the creditcard discussion, and i know there are aother payment methodes coming up ..
So for the time being I suggest ( and mind , it is a suggestion , you don't have to do anything with it ) that you check how many users are using the cash shop against the users who aren't ( not names , not ammounts just xx use it , xx do not ) and then decide if it is really usefull to keep refering to the cash shop everytime something like a perk weapon or skill is changed.
And even then If you dicede to give a perk reset or skill reset it doesn't have to be everything, you could give points to the people to reset about 1/3 or 1/4 of their skills and perks with an 5 day limit so no-one can save them up or something.
Thanks for listening to me , and I hope i won't get understood wrong, so don't think i'm mad , I'm just a bit dissapointed but I'll keep playing Gunrox casue it's so darn fun!😁
- Michielh3
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Name at least one online game that allows such resets for free.
Now in many online games there is а moments, when player in transformation from a novice to skilled player, have an opportunity once or twice noncommercially redistribute skills and perks or part of them.
It is reasonable to create test account, and then begin to play already understanding all details, but not many people are hardcore players and testers.
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If u screwd up, blame yourself. Sure, money can undo the screwup. If money wouldnt, what would be the point? Ah also, to avoid posting everywhere I'll say it here, every player comes up with suggestions that only have upsize, the bonus, but that will ruin the game, think like a developer. Damn. I bet we will soon see a suggestion about making clan creating free, I mean everyplayer should have a clan of theyr own like the paying members..
Ah you get me.
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I think what would be more useful is a chance to try out these changes for free on a test server. People would see how useful they are, and then they could spend cash in the game server if they see its good.
Another game I play online has a test server, which is for game developers to test their next patch and players to run silly tests on their accounts. Nothing you do in test server affects the actual game server, and the game server state is copied to the test server every now and then, so any items or experience you get on the test server is lost every time a new mirror is made.
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NoNamer:
If u screwd up, blame yourself. Sure, money can undo the screwup. If money wouldnt, what would be the point? Ah also, to avoid posting everywhere I'll say it here, every player comes up with suggestions that only have upsize, the bonus, but that will ruin the game, think like a developer.
Wow... Your statements are ompeletely far out. I could write a very long post about how wrong you are, but I will try to make it short.
1. Having to make decisions about a subject, of which you don't have access to the required knowledge to make it an informed decision, is not the player's fault. And that leads to people taking wrong decisions. Almost like when you talk about game development/design. This game design issue can be fixed in several ways, the easiest one is probably the one I mentioned in the beginning of this thread.
2. Fixing issues in a game design, correcting bugs and improving features does not ruin a game, quite the opposite.
3. I think like a developer/programmer because that is actually what I am. For you I think it will be adequate if you could just read the thread thorougly AND understand it before you post.
Late: Yeah, the approach with a test server where players can try out different skills etc. before creating an account is also used by someone. It is also a good approach, but required a lot more effort to implement IMO.
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My main issue was with the price. 1 dollar to redo 1 perk point, and 1 dollar to redo 5 skill point? that is an outrageous price for an account in where you have to redo most of your perk/skill configuration.
Maybe add an option such as "Full redo" for 10/15 bucks or so.
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