What's with the low XP for losing?

[Xenomech]

I recently started playing again and noticed a huge change in the amount of XP awarded for winning/losing a game. For example, in the last game I won I made over 1000 XP, yet in the last couple of games I lost, I made 30 or 40 XP(!), even after almost finishing off the other team. I don't remember the XP awards for losing being so terribly low.

How are players supposed to advance once they've lost their gear and start each game with the odds stacked against them every game?

[berserker]

You probably loose to players of lower level than you or you play naked.

[onetower]

Xenomech: and what are you expecting for lose ? fireworks ?

do you think that ppl at Normandy will also takes the hills after death ?

[Xenomech]

You probably loose to players of lower level than you or you play naked.

Nope, neither. I once got 59 XP with the 60% bonus for being equipped. WTF is that?

[Xenomech]

Xenomech: and what are you expecting for lose ? fireworks ?

do you think that ppl at Normandy will also takes the hills after death ?

I expect a reasonable XP gain to make the game worthwhile, that's all.

And this isn't WWII. It's a game.

[berserker]

Nope, neither. I once got 59 XP with the 60% bonus for being equipped. WTF is that?

Then you did almost no damage. Experience = damage.

[Dewdundency]

my advice Xenomech? hold out for games you have a chance at and start there... once you win one try to ride that streak as long as you can - games come in streaks...

[Xenomech]

Then you did almost no damage. Experience = damage.

Killing two people counts as almost no damage?

[HomeRnDrby1]

I think the experience multiplier currently is a little flawed.

I've noticed that certain multipliers take effect in a certain order, but this is only a theory...

First to resolve is level differential. For each level you are above or below your target, you get 10% less or more experience respectively.

The second factor is the win/loss result. A win grants a full multiplier, but a loss costs you with only 20% in a team game or only half in a FFA with more than three players.

Everything below this line factors in from what the above two totaled to.

Third to resolve is the clan bonus. Fight on a controlled map... get a boost of 10% from what you earned from the fight's outcome.

Next is the size bonus. For each player past the second, each player earns an additional 5%. So a 6 player game nets everyone a 20% boost.

Fifth to resolve is the equipment bonus. 20% per unit that starts with gear is added to whatever you earned. So starting with a full load nets you 60% more experience.

Lastly... is the "Double Experience" feature in the Cash Shop. Basically, it doubles whatever your earned EXP was. It does NOT double the bonus experience factors!

That's how I think the experience is scored. Suggestions are welcome!

[Xenomech]

Just FYI...

I just finished a 1 on 1 game with an opponent of equal level. Went in with the 60% "all players equipped" bonus, inflicted 2/3 of the total enemy team's health worth in damage, lost the game, and ended up with 48 XP.

This is compared to the 1,000+ XP I earned defeating a player two levels lower than me a few days ago.

That's garbage right there. This is not right.

[berserker]

If avarage player at your level has under 150 HP and you inflicted 2/3 of health which is under 300 and you loose, you will earn 20% of 300 which is under 60 of exp. Can't see what your problem is. Just win more.

[HomeRnDrby1]

I seriously think that there is too much stress on winning games. Only getting 20% EXP for a loss is a steep penalty to pay.

[Xenomech]

If avarage player at your level has under 150 HP and you inflicted 2/3 of health which is under 300 and you loose, you will earn 20% of 300 which is under 60 of exp. Can't see what your problem is. Just win more.

Okay, I let it slip the first two times you did this in this thread, but now I'm gonna give you some free advice. Now that you are trying to make money from this game, you have to understand two things:

1. You can't act like a prick to your users and expect them to stick around. Responding to legitimate gripes with insults and accusations is not the way to go.

2. You need to seriously look into why people play games and what makes games fun. Here's an article on loot theory (http://hdrlying.com/2008/09/03/loot-theory-the-tale-of-the-donkey-and-the-carrot/), for example. Seriously, look into the whole concept of game rewards and what makes a game successful.

Honestly, if you don't want Gunrox to be completely forgotten in a year, you seriously need to work on these two things.

[Xenomech]

I seriously think that there is too much stress on winning games. Only getting 20% EXP for a loss is a steep penalty to pay.

Nail on the head.

[luke1976]

especially when u have killed all but one of the other team and u get less than 100 xp :(. I think a kill should get a xp bonus . it may also give more reason for players to stand ground and try and get that xtra kill before they die instead of running. Maybe 50 xp per kill. so kill 2 get 100 xp + damage maybe 150 - 200 xp . nothing massive like a win but will still slowly lev up.
I lost about 1300 enkord cash worth of weapons to win almost no xp even though i killed 4 of the six enemy players. Winning xp is great but losing is really low. Maybe ill give up using cash shop and just play for free just as much chance of getting xp plus no cost to me. Some matches can last an hour with only one player left on each side , great while ur playing but lose and come out with only 50 xp doesn`t leave u feeling like playing again just feels like u wasted an hour and lost ur weapons for nothing.

[berserker]

Okay, I let it slip the first two times you did this in this thread, but now I'm gonna give you some free advice.

Thank you for your advice but I prefer if you could just keep it to yourself.

[berserker]

Some matches can last an hour with only one player left on each side , great while ur playing but lose and come out with only 50 xp doesn`t leave u feeling like playing again just feels like u wasted an hour and lost ur weapons for nothing.

The problem with giving more exp is that the more exp we will give on loosing, the less incentive there will be for people to win.

[Xenomech]

Thank you for your advice but I prefer if you could just keep it to yourself.

I'm sorry you feel that way. With that attitude, you're gonna need all the luck you can get in order to be successful.

[luke1976]

The problem with giving more exp is that the more exp we will give on loosing, the less incentive there will be for people to win.

I dont mean any major changes but a small xp bonus for kills would slightly increase the losers xp and give reason to go for that last kill when u only have say 24 hp the closest unit is in the red u have a choice kill him and lose the match or run and still lose but drag the game on in case of disconnect or ur oppenent making a big mistake (unlikley at high levels) which can make games really boring. If i knew id get that bit more xp not another tiny 5-6xp more but a kill bonus of 50xp
my mind would be made up for me. if u added this bonus after other modifiers it would not increase the winners xp much but slightly increase the losers and give some reward for getting kills

[Xenomech]

The problem with giving more exp is that the more exp we will give on loosing, the less incentive there will be for people to win.

That's not a very well thought out argument. What it really is doing is giving less incentive for half your players (i.e. those who lose) to play. And if those half quit, half of the remaining players become losers and the cycle begins again.

Winning is its own incentive; you need something to keep the people who lose from quitting entirely. There is an obvious focus in awarding winners at every opportunity, and the game is suffering for it.

[berserker]

I dont mean any major changes but a small xp bonus for kills would slightly increase the losers xp

Small bonus won't make the difference. If you receive 48 or 76 won't make much difference. This game is striclty PvP from the scratch so it was designed to be competitive, there is no point it making at all around winning cause it won't bring us anywhere. If someone wins, someone has to loose. In order to make all players win we need AI to loose, i.e. we need bots/mobs but this is something very far away from here. Don't try to make from this game something completely different.

[berserker]

I've come up with following loosing exp calculation:

30% by default + 10% for first kill + 10% for second kill +5% for third kill and +5% for fourth kill which will result in 60% exp maximum.
For FFA battles same as above except starting exp is 40% (instead of fixed 50% that we have now). What do you think?

[Xenomech]

I've come up with following loosing exp calculation:

30% by default + 10% for first kill + 10% for second kill +5% for third kill and +5% for fourth kill which will result in 60% exp maximum.
For FFA battles same as above except starting exp is 40% (instead of fixed 50% that we have now). What do you think?

Based on experience, I would recommend the losing player should receive about 1/3 to 1/2 the total experience of the winning player, after all bonuses/penalties are accounted for. This leaves a wide enough gap between the winning and losing teams advancement rate, but give the losing team enough incentive to keep going.

One has to keep in mind that there are already many other disincentives for the losing team (lowering their win/loss record, losing all their items, losing real-world money, etc.).

[luke1976]

I've come up with following loosing exp calculation:

30% by default + 10% for first kill + 10% for second kill +5% for third kill and +5% for fourth kill which will result in 60% exp maximum.
For FFA battles same as above except starting exp is 40% (instead of fixed 50% that we have now). What do you think?

that sounds pretty good to me . all i was looking for was something to keep the losing team in the fight and not run and hide.(that includes myself having run when i could have took that xtra kill):D
and team games when u get a lot of kills but still lose u get a bit more xp for those cash shop weapons i buy.

[berserker]

u get a bit more xp for those cash shop weapons i buy.

We are going to drop item prices in the shop significatly (only for weapons/armor, not for features and outfit).

[luke1976]

We are going to drop item prices in the shop significatly (only for weapons/armor, not for features and outfit).

any chance of making outfits permanent so u dont have to keep buying them every 90 days ?
and when will this reduction happen haven`t got much enkord cash left.

[berserker]

You haven't spent 90 days yet :) BTW, haircut hair color and skil color changes are permanent.

[luke1976]

You haven't spent 90 days yet :) BTW, haircut hair color and skil color changes are permanent.

I know shop hasn`t been open 90 days yet :p, but it puts me off buying them. I want some ganja t-shirts and wings. ;)

I have been playing since the beta started and thats more than 90 days.:D

[berserker]

Yep, but I think you will be tired of it before it will expire :)

[luke1976]

We are going to drop item prices in the shop significatly (only for weapons/armor, not for features and outfit).


when will this happen:confused: not much cash left.:(

[berserker]

Next week or by the end of this week.

[onetower]

i come forward to this general disscusion, and want to say, that should be NO experience for loosed match, only Winner takes all significantly raised...than all ranks will be the prove of man gameplay style, and thrustworthy signal that all wins are in great style...

...from the other side, when will be each man from trio personal statistic of dmg given/taken,how many this person kill/die ???

[CoDeRs_KnOw]

it's simple, if you dont win you wont gain much xp
i cant see something illogical there
winning is important in everywhere, everytime
just try to win, do your best, perform all you have

[Xenomech]

i come forward to this general disscusion, and want to say, that should be NO experience for loosed match, only Winner takes all significantly raised...

That's creates an extreme disincentive for half the players of the game and would be a huge mistake. The game needs incentives to keep players who have lost a match and have no more weapons. Adding more punishments on top of this will only make things worse.

[Xenomech]

it's simple, if you dont win you wont gain much xp
i cant see something illogical there
winning is important in everywhere, everytime
just try to win, do your best, perform all you have

It's not bad logic; it's bad game design. The purpose of a game is to make it fun so that people continue to play (and, hopefully, continue to pay, in the case of a commercial game).